By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort. Both of those spots are problematic though. Let's hop in! For moving the pump to another sink, you would have to talk with a plumber. The large valves should be in the off position, whereas the service valves should be in the on place. Make sure there are no loose connections. Recirculation valve for use with NPE-A series tankless water heaters Designed for recirculation of domestic hot water in applications where a dedicated return line is not available. You also have to flush the heat exchanger. Here are some of the leading causes of cold water production; Which means there isnt enough time for the water to heat up. The number of bathrooms, tubs, dishwashers, and washers. Find products from Grundfos related to this subject. Also, make sure you get the 1- pipe for the horizontal manifold, which will help even out the flow of the recirculators. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. Answer: It really depends on your model type. Its a piece of cake to bleed the air out of your Navien recirculation pump. When you turn on the shower or a faucet, do you get hot water instantly? Power Waste Similarly, if the return from the loops is mixing with the boiler loop system and cooling off the water before it gets sent to the recirculation pump, you will face this problem. What I imagined would happen is 3-4 seconds of cold and then super hot water that was just waiting for me from the recirculation. Unscrew the plug cover with a suitable screwdriver to remove it. Therefore, the total peak demand of hot water needed is the ideal size of the heater you should get. You can set it to run in the morning before work, and in the evening. Navien Flow Sensor. I'm fairly handy with DIY plumbing, but not and expert and I know when I am out of my league. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? Allow it to dry and then fix it back. Here is the final install. Refer to the user manual to locate the Hot Button and then press it to activate hot water recirculation. A family of 4 with normal water usage can expect to save $50-$75 a year. Eric Alvarez is an HVAC guy based in El Paso, Texas, United States. I kind of feel like he is trying to get away with something that wasnt installed properly but hopefully I am wrong. Is there a way to tell if the cold pipe is circulatory/return line or cold water from the mains? Advantages and disadvantages of hot water circulation pumps. Is there a recirculating pump for the tankless water heater known as Trutankless? Any tips on where to verify if I have a dedicated return line? Thanks. (1000-3000+ Sq Ft Homes), Thermostat Says Heat On But No Heat? All in all, its important to understand that recirculation pumps are worth the money. Here is a list of advantages associated with hot water circulating pumps: Now lets have a look at the disadvantages of these pumps: Needless to say, recirculation pumps are not free. Also, did you wire the PB from the Hot Button kit or only use the remote? The plumber said that he tied in both in the master bathroom and the kitchen but Ill crawl under the house to validate this. But, you can buy a new recirculating pump for $200-400. So, ensure you purge the air out of the recirculation pump to operate the unit quietly. You can contact a plumber if necessary. However, whenever I turn on the cold water at the kitchen sink for a few seconds the tankless unit starts to run (heat water) even though I dont want heated water. Thats all for today. The pump works on the existing pipes; it basically sends the leftover water back to the boiler or the heater. This happens when you have a huge heater and lower gas output. The hot water recirculation pump works by: The very phrase recirculating comes from this pump returning the unused hot water back into the tank. A hot water recirculating pump will save you money, especially if you have a larger family. Is it possible to create a concave light? Only 13 left in stock - order soon. Hi Christopher, not really. Thats kind of why the water heater still has to do some work (it turns on); its not a lot of heating but some heating is usually required. Turn off the device for half an hour and confirm everything is working correctly. Some pumps, in order to avoid needing a dedicated return path, will recirculate the water via the cold water supply, so getting some hot water from the cold supply would be normal in this case. $257.16. Also, check if the electrical cord is grounded correctly or not. The water heater is set to 120 F (49 C) by default. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. The recirculation pump saves on water bills by reducing the time to get hot water. So you'll find the same info whether you're looking for the Navien 240A manual, the Navien NPE-240S manual, Navien NPE-180A manual or similar. I agree the user manuals are very helpful. Parts that will actually be used depend on what kind of hot water recirculation pump you have. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. Remove and clean the cold air intake filter. The answer is that leftover water in the pipes has cooled over time. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Then re-insert the filter and screw it back in place. This issue is more common in older heater models. Follow Up: struct sockaddr storage initialization by network format-string, Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology, Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying. Pour two gallons of white vinegar into a 5gallons bucket. Just locate the air bleeder valve on top of the recirculation system. Unplug the power to your Navien water heater. I have a new Noritz tankless water heater that includes an AquaMotion recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. If your system is re-circed as close as possible to the fixtures (ask yourself do I have two hot waterlines for each fixture?) Neither reason is likely to be correct but we would need a much more in depth knowledge of the hot water distribution system and the circulation line in particular. We have some suggestions for you if you want to buy the best wifi sockets. This is because the motherboard or control board is the units brain responsible for receiving and transmitting information in the heater. Full Recirculation Pump System - Going this route adds additional piping to your system, allowing for a "hot water loop" to be created, ensuring the water doesn't end up sitting and going cold in your pipes and instead is recirculated, ready for the next time you turn on the tap. Obviously, everybody loves immediate hot water from their faucets but this luxury can be quite expensive. We were advised of this upon installation. It does save you water but it also costs you a bit of electricity. Press the Power button on the front panel to turn off the water heater. When its time to work with a recirculating pump, you should follow some instructions to avoid further hassles. If youre using this pump and cant fix it yourself, you can call a professional mechanic to fix it. Turn the pump off and dump the vinegar. Just one Navien water heater manual for all NPE-A and NPE-S units. Next, check and remove the intake filter from the heater. You can install it yourself (DIY circulation pump installation) or call a professional; more on that in the part about how much do hot water recirculating pumps cost. Disconnect the power supply to the water heater. Watt recirculating pump installed on the water heater (pump plugged into standard 110/120V outlet, 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors, valve). What effect does this have on gas usage for instant hot water? Therefore, the only task you can attempt on this list is the gasket replacement for the leaking water connection. A recirculation system is a hot water line that runs throughout the house and returns back to the water heater. Not only that, by now you should know how to turn it off and why its important to do so. Examine the thermistors condition and pump wiring connectors. NEC 310.16 Table: Copper And Aluminum Wire Ampacity Chart, NEC 310.12 Table: Wire Sizes For 100-400 Amp Services (83% Rule), kWh To Therms Calculator + Conversion Chart (1 kWh = 0.03412 Therms), MMBTU To Therms Calculator + Chart (1 MMBTU = 10 Therms), Therms To MMBTU Calculator + Chart (1 Therm = 1/10 MMBTU), AWG To Circular Mils Chart (For 4/0 AWG To 20 AWG). Going off the grid sounds noble, satisfying and eco-friendly. Privacy Policy. Purchasing a timer will also fix the problem. Here are four problems with these pump systems that you should be aware of. It can occur due to an open or short sensor. The pump will cost you $200 to install, $5.50-$32 to operate, will waste $160-$400 per year and will save you $4-$50 on your water bill. Then, you can change the tank thermistor if needed. Remove the intake filter and properly wash it using a brush beneath running water. Some sort of noise out of your Navien recirculation pump is normal. When we dont have to use it, why keep it on? That means that the cold water is not actually cold; it will usually be slightly warm (at room temperature). Now, when installed, the recirculating pump makes it seem that the hot water starts flowing right away like magic. Great article!! Lets outline them here: To determine if installing a hot water recirculation pump makes sense for your situation, we have to check the pros and cons. How To Turn Off A Water Recirculating Pump? You need a crossover valve installed under one of your faucets that is far away from the water heater (there are a few different styles but they all have four connections and get installed under a faucet). Question: Can a recirculating pump last for 10-15 years?Answer: If you use it properly, it should last at least 10-15 years. However, the hot water had to travel from your water heater to the faucet for you to use. Otherwise, this will cause the shut-off valve to get damaged. The Navien is smart enough to stop recirculation when it recognises hot water has made the entire loop. You can turn it off during work hours, over the night, when you go on vacations, and so on. Always on checks in every 30 minutes and turns on the heat recirculation if the water is 9 degrees under the water goal temp. Thats why most homeowners prefer installing the recirculation pump without the extra pipe. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads. Should I keep my 5-year-old electric tank heater as a storage unit if I am about to install a new gas tankless heater? Ensure the main gas supply valve is open. IF it does, could it be controlled remotely? This is the system you can see in the photos above. Depending on the age of your Navien NPE-A model, he did you a favor. We do all the time-consuming research and testing for you. The filter is located at the top left of the water heater. The average electric tankless water heater needs at least 120 amps to work. Start by turning off the service valves and removing the hoses. The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. I obviously dont know much about this but the plumber is giving reasons that feel like he is making up dont make sense to me: 1. My pipes arent big enough 2. Both options use less energy than a continuously-running system. Nobody really likes waiting for the hot water to start flowing under the shower or doing the dishes, for example. The setup is correct and the only two settings you need are P.12 for recirculation time and P.16 for length of recirculation line from farthest point in the house. If you have any questions about these pumps, how they work, or some calculations, you can give us the specifics in the comments below and well try to help you out. You will not get hot water instantly. Turn off the device for 30 minutes and then restart it. If we take that the average price of water is $0.18/gallon (according to Statistas 2019 study), heres how much you can save on water with a recirculation pump: Water Savings = 2,920 gallons/year * $0.18/gallon = $525.60/year. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Does the thing have a 'vacation' mode? air), Latent Heat (BTU/hr) = 0.69 x CFM x gr. This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. First, place a thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. The heater turns off automatically when the flue pipe surpasses 149 degrees Fahrenheit. Or invest in a larger water heater. . I am guessing that he only returned the HOT line, hence the delayed time in "INSTANT HOT", as the Naviens are sold as well as there 96% efficiency!! and our Apart from that, you can easily turn it on/off on your mobile whenever you wish. The estimated annual operating cost of the Navien tankless water heater, based on the yearly estimated residential use per US Energy Department test criteria, is $191. Reconnect the power supply to the water heater. Make sure the electrical cord is grounded. In his spare time, Oscar loves tinkering with electronics. Lets look at the two most popular types: You can install hot water or tankless hot water recirculation pump in an existing or in a new home. Putting one recirc line in won't turn a line and branch system into a loop system automatically. The short answer is no, your water will still be pure. Works great and saves the copper pipes. Then remove the cold water filter off located next to the cold water isolation valve. Check this too: Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide Reassemble the heater and turn on the hot and cold water valves. I would appreciate any help and insight you can offer. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 This number indicates that the water pressure is high. Make sure the major electrical cord is grounded correctly. I bought the. Another suggestion I can give you is to maintain and service your Navien water heater according to the manual. And. If you've got a tankless water heater installed that doesn't come with a built-in recirculation pump, then in such a scenario, a separate recirculation pump can do the trick for you. The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. Do you want to know the details? Is there a check valve? Below are different Navien water heater error codes and their solutions; Navien error code 003 how to fix indicates that there is an ignition failure in your unit. Just like everything with these three characteristics, it is time-consuming and challenging. Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. Is this a common drawback with the under-sink crossover valve? Do you want to know the details? Why Does My RV Carbon Monoxide Detector Keep Going Off? It means there is some issue with the OT-remote controllers operation. It has a timer that turns on the pump at regular intervals, mostly during peak usage times. qc = the circulating water flow [m3/s] The water heater will retain your settings during a power outage. Here are some simple instructions on how to turn on your Navien tankless water heater. It tells you about the improper operation of the flow sensor. If that fails, then the pump impeller might have disintegrated or the system water pressure may be below 0 at the pump suction causing the pump to cavitate. With two pipes, you can create a loop between the water heater and faucets. Make sure to follow the required instructions before and after you've turned it off for your safety. Another sign is the error code display. Why Does My Stiebel Eltron Tempra High-limit Switch Keep Tripping. To calculate the size of the heater, you will need to add up the amount of water required at a particular time. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. That may present a problem in the summer when you need cold water; turning the pump off during the summer months solves the problem. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Press the + (Up) or (Down) buttons until the desired temperature appears on display. The only problem you have is there is no check valves in place check valves or like stop signs that direct traffic check valves, direct to flow of water. Well, If you overuse your pump, it will start malfunctioning. Then, read the manual on Navien tankless water heater how to reset. If required, replace the thermistor. Its not exactly normal. Then, use the arrows to set the desired temperature. Take care! link to Why Does My RV Carbon Monoxide Detector Keep Going Off? For more information, please see our There are no error codes showing. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? Hi Howy, well, the circulating pumps are usually powered by electricity, so they dont use gas. 10.6 Maintenance 10.7.3 NPE-180A/240A Pump P-Q Curve The Navien NPE-180A and NPE-240A water heaters that are used . (+ Installation Costs), How Many Amps Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? I recommend you disassemble the recirculation pump from the unit and inspect it carefully for foreign materials. "The recirculating pump costs about the same as operating a 25-watt light bulb," says Umberto Griccino, a commercial plumber and HouseGrail consultant. Go along the steps described below to set the recirculation settings. If your system displays this code, you need to confirm the water pressure is within good ranges. Remove the front cover of the water heater. The exhaust is overheating. Air in the line: If there has been a power outage or air has gotten into the line for another reason, the pump can make a lot of noise. But in my case its significant amount of time and it only really gets hot if I fully open the hot water at that faucet otherwise it is luke warm. We have 6 Navien NR-210A manuals available for free PDF download: Service Manual, Operation & Installation Manual, Installation Manual, Owner's Operation Manual, Quick Installation Manual Navien NR-210A Service Manual (179 pages) NR/NP Series Tankless Gas Water Heater Brand: Navien | Category: Water Heater | Size: 21.79 MB Table of Contents There are filters that prevent the sediment from entering the water flow. Rather than using the hard wired door bell style push button that comes with the kit, I bought this remote control unit (. Fortunately, Navien water heaters recycle hot water and always provide hot water. (std. Hi Patrick, thats a good insight. Heres the deal on how to get the hot water faster from a water heater: When we turn on any faucet, the hot water needs to travel from the hot water heater to the faucet. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages. Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. The user manual for these devices (of which I own two) provides a pretty good plumbing diagram for proper install. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? It is an indication that your warm water outlet thermistor has some problems. If you are looking for a tankless water heater that can provide you with hot water 24/7, Navien water heater is the way to go. (Per Hour, Month, Year), How Much Does A Tankless Water Heater Cost? Types of water circulation pumps, including tankless water heater recirculation pumps. The second method seems to suggest the cold water at sinks will most likely have been run through the hot water tank. Side question: are you able to explain to me what always on means? Yes, you can turn it off by yourself. How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? A while ago we had a plumber/friend install a Navien tankless water heater. It can take anywhere from 10 seconds to 1 minute for the hot water to reach the faucet. Examine and clean the filter in a cold water inlet. I don't hear the heater "fire up" right away when the tap is opened and can't tell if the recirculation pump is running. Though we share resources, information, and educational guide on plumbing & DIY projects, the content here is not a substitute for professional guidance. The pump saves this cold water and recirculates it in the hot water. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Close the cold and hot water inlet valves and then drain the water heater. Im interested in information on a tankless water heater with a built in recirculating pump. Use your pump when you want to use it. To create an energy-efficient full recirculation system, your pump has to come with these two efficiency optimizing parts. Now, we have to check if these costs are balanced out by the water savings. 08. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Normally uncontrolled pumps are used as the flow variation is relatively small. The 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors are used to connect the pump to your existing pipes. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages, but they do offer the luxury of having hot water almost instantaneously and they save you a lot of water. (With Water Savings Analysis), Note On Tankless Water Heater Hot Water Recirculation Pumps (Double Trouble), How Much Electricity Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? Why isn't my Navien tankless water heater performing as it should? some homes require multiple recirc lines in order for all fixture group to benefit. Why Its Important To Turn Off The Water Recirculating Pump? Yes!!! Contents show For example, if you get the tees backward, the recirculation pump will not function properly. All you have to know is how to turn it off. On a side note, if your Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, it may have air locks or installation problems. When building a house, its smart to think about hot water recirculation as well. I broke down all the possible reasons that cause your Navien Recirculation Pump to produce a humming noise. Ensure that all hot water faucets are closed, and ensure that the internal circulator and any external circulating pumps are off. Where does this (supposedly) Gibson quote come from? [Fix It Easily], Ball Valve Handle Broke Off [Step By Step Solutions]. First, place a " thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. This made me suspicious that water was coming from the mains. If enabled you would find that your hot water is ready to go almost anytime you need it, without a long wait. Also, check the filters to see if they are clean. Read the users Navien nr-240a manual to get information on how to flush the heat exchanger and reset the remote for Navien tankless water heater. He said he tied in both in the master bath and the kitchen but it seems if that were the case at a minimum they would have hot water quickly. This on-demand water heater has a lower carbon footprint, is energy efficient, and has a longer lifespan. Your article ended saying All in all, its important to understand that recirculation pumps are worth the money. To remedy the issue, consider increasing the gas supply to the heater. Note: Remember to turn off power to the heater before replacing the gasket. 1. If you are unsure of whether the recirculation pump was correctly installed, contact Navien technical center or the NSS agent who installed the heater. I can figure out occupied or not from a home automation or alarm system. Get in touch with Navien technical support at 800-519-8794. However, this is only a temporary fix. You will see in the photo that the cold water valve shuts off water into the domestic water inlet but doesn't have a shut off into the circulation water inlet. He obtained his Bachelor of Science degree from the University Of Texas at El Paso. Page 12 Turn off and discontinue use of the water heater if any of the vent . This gives users hot water when they need it, saving water and money. If the problem persists after reset, replace the APS as soon as possible. I have 5 connections including the recirculation in. Thanks! Question: How is a water recirculating pump eco-friendly?Answer: The basic reason is, water recirculating pumps save water. 3. If the problem does not get resolved, replace the motherboard or control board or hire a professional t do it. Circulation pumps can wreck havoc on your lines if you run them constantly due to friction at bends causing pinhole leaks. There are more options, for example- you can buy a wifi socket. But it will be best if you contact a certified plumber to fix this issue. House generators are quite expensive. This extra pipe is installed parallel to conventional piping. Correcting Navien Tankless Hot Water Heater Installation, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Tankless water heater - not consistent hot water output, Plumbing Manifold Use With a Tankless Hot Water Heater, No hot water if hot water recirculator pump is shut off, warm water only when we replaced the hot water heater with a tankless heater. Navien NPE-240 A Recirculation Linewww.amazon.com/shop/miheatingguyMilwaukee 2131-20 M18 ROCKET Dual Power Tower Lighthttps://amzn.to/3pe2hYHMilwaukee M12 Surge Hydraulic Driver Kit #2551-22https://amzn.to/3n5offbMakita E-01563 Impact XPS 3 Pc. 2. However, if it generates annoying or buzzing noise, there is something wrong with the system. Turn off the unit and check the valves wiring and condition. When attempting a flush of the system, I shut off the hot and cold valves that lead into the heater. Working well so far. Check this too: Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide. sounds like you need a different plumber to assess your situation. The E615 tells you about the irregularity in input and memory. Is this correct for the function of the system? Then turn on the heater and then your pump. Navien NaviCirc Recirculation Valve Description How it works Specifications Dimensions If yes, clean them. This is where the timer and temperature sensor come in. The leading causes of the intermittent flame; You can fix these issues by maintaining and cleaning the heater. The bigger the house, the longer these water pipes usually are, and the longest it takes to get hot water. Additionally, you can install a 5-micron filter in the water inlet right before the heater to remove impurities from the water. The temperature sensor, on the other hand, makes sure you dont needlessly use too much energy to heat the water. It will make your water recirculating pump much smarter. Low gas supply which prevents proper heating of water, Damaged flow sensor preventing proper supply of gas to the heater. Both types of systems have similar pros and cons. I have a tankless water heater with an external recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink.
